WALK & TALK: AGUS & RUDI

SLUG : WALK & TALK: AGUS & RUDI

LOCATION : MUARO JAMBI - INDONESIA

CORRESPONDENT NAME : MOCHAMAD ANDRI

Description :

Agus -> unbold

Rudi -> in bold

1

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Parit Duku itu kan komplek stupa hampir semua 23 strukturnya itu stupa. dan itu tidak tidak menyanggah ya, dulu kita anggap itu 4 struktur, sekarang 32. Dan itu stupa kecil maupun besar.  

Parit Duku is a stupa complex; almost all 23 of its structures are stupas. This doesn't contradict our previous understanding, as we initially thought it consisted of 4 structures, but now we recognize it has 32. These include both small and large stupas.

2

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Nah kita tahu kalau kompleks stupa itu kan tempat menyimpan relik, biku-biku yang sudah tidak ada yang ini. Nah wajarlah ini kan ribuan biku, guru-guru besar.  

Well, we know that the stupa complex serves as a place to store relics of no longer present monks. It makes sense that there are thousands of monks, including great teachers.

3

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Pasti ada tempat-tempat untuk menyimpan relik ketika dia paling nirwana kan gitu kan. Nah kita sudah komplit ini. Ada candinya, ada monastery-nya kan, ada juga kompleks stupanya.  

There must be places to store relics for those who have achieved nirvana, right? We have a complete site here: a temple, a monastery, and a stupa complex.

4

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Nah yang menarik kan nanti ini, kutu maligai kan. Nah kutu maligai. Kutu maligai sudah-sudah selesai, artinya yang separuh sudah kita buka tapi yang separuh kita untuk menyimpan penelitian.  

Now, what’s interesting is this Koto Maligai, right? The Koto Maligai is finished; we have opened half of it but keep the other half for research purposes.

5

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Jadi jangan dibuka semuanya.  

So, don’t open it all.

6

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Di sana ada temukan arca atau rupang. Pancadiani Buddha bisa terbukti nggak Pak ada disini?  

There are statues or sculptures found there. Can it be proven that the Pancadiani Buddha is here, Sir?

7

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Jadi gini, di Gapura yang sisi utara ya, pada waktu dibuka memang dulu kayaknya pernah terbakar ya. Jadi kita masih menemukan pasak-pasaknya, pintu masuk, terus disitu juga ada ketemu arca Awalokiteswara.  

So, here’s the situation: on the northern side of the gate, when it was opened, it seems it had been burned. We still find the pegs and the entrance, and there we also discovered a statue of Awalokiteswara.

8

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Awalokiteswara. Kita tahu berarti kan Mahayana lah.  

Awalokiteswara. We know that signifies Mahayana.

9

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Amitabha, Awalikiteswara, berarti barat.  

Amitabha, Awalokiteswara, which indicates the western influence.

10

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Jadi itu sih sebenarnya arca itu ornament sih. Biasanya ornament di atas. Gapura bukan rupang yang memang untuk dipuja, yang biasanya dibangunan utama bukan.  

So, the statue is actually an ornament. Usually, ornaments are placed on top. The gate does not feature a statue intended for worship, which is typically found in the main building, right?

11

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Tapi itu sudah membuktikan bahwa candi-candi di Jawa kan juga di atas ada arca kecil, Awalikiteswara kan biasa. Terus yang kemudian yang lebih penting lagi kita menemukan yang menampu alun-alun itu. Setelah kita buka kan ternyata benar memang alun-alun.  

However, this has proven that temples in Java also have small statues on top, with Awalokiteswara being common. More importantly, we found what accommodates the town square. After we opened it, it turned out to be the town square.

12

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Jadi pagar keliling, di tengahnya kayak lapangan. Alun-alun kan lapangan Pak Rudi. Jadi saya yakin itu sebagai tempat berkumpul, bisa untuk debat, ujian, dan lain-lain gitu.  

So, there’s a fence around it, and in the middle, it’s like a field. The town square is Pak Rudi’s field. I’m sure it served as a gathering place that could be used for debates, exams, and so on.

13

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Kayak model hari ini di Seraje.  

Like the model we see today in Seraje.

14

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Di Seraje itu. Jadi dia punya tempat khusus. Komplit kan sebenarnya. Nah kalau yang di Sialang itu tempel aja. Ini yang kemarin orang ragu-ragu kalau dulu di sini untuk perguruan, pendidikan.  

In Seraje, they have a special place. It’s quite complete, isn’t it? Now, the one in Sialang is just an extension. This is what people were uncertain about regarding its use for education in the past.

15

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Nah sekarang sudah pelan-pelan terbukti. Dan yang menarik kemarin kita satu ketemu tempat workshopnya pengecoran logam. Di Kemingking.  

Now it’s slowly being proven. What’s interesting is that yesterday we discovered a metal casting workshop in Kemingking.

16

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Kita ketemu banyak bul ya. Yang kayak mangkok yang ada ceratnya kalau ada logam. Untuk nuang-nuang itu ketemu bahan bakunya.  

We found many bowls, right? The ones that look like bowls with spouts for pouring metal. We found the raw materials for pouring.

17

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Terus kemudian tempat ininya nuangkan. Kemudian juga ketemu logam setelah dicampur macam-macam. Misalkan kita bikin perungkukan dari tembaga campur timah.  

Then this is the area for pouring. We also found metal after mixing various components. For example, we made a casting from copper mixed with tin.

18

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Itu ada kerak-keraknya. Jadi masih kita punya kerak-kerak. Jadi luar biasa kan. Cetakannya ketemu. Cetakan di sekitar Pariduku. Cetakan. Tapi di luarnya. Kan lumayan itu. Itu bukan proses belajar.  

There are remnants of slag. So, we still have some of that. It’s quite amazing, right? We found the mold around Parit Duku. The molds, but they were located outside. That’s quite significant. This isn’t just a learning process.

19

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Proses belajar, kebutuhan di sini dipakai untuk alat-alat dan sebagainya. Nah ini gimana? Di kanal?  

The learning process here is reflected in the tools and other items that were made. So, what about the canal?

20

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Kanal sudah dinormalisasi.  

The canal has been normalized.

21

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Ada penemuan apa?  

What discoveries have been made?

22

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Balai Wilayah Sungai. Ini kan sudah. Sebenarnya sudah dinormalisasikan dulu kan. Jadi kanal ini ada dua.  

The River Basin Office. This has already been done; in fact, it was normalized earlier. So, there are two canals.

23

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Kanal yang Sungai Alam. Sungai Jambi kan Sungai Alam. Terus Ampuran Jalo.  

The Natural River Canal. The Jambi River is the Natural River, and then there’s the Ampuran Jalo.

24

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Brembang. Terus kan itu Sungai Alam. Tapi kan dimanfaatkan orang dulu.  

Brembang. Then, that’s a Natural River. But it was previously used by people.

25

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Itu sudah dinormalisasi. Kanal-kanal yang benar-benar buatan kan kita ngerjain. Kita menemukan potongan-potongan perahu.  

That has been normalized. We worked on the truly artificial canals, and we found pieces of boats.

26

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Ini ada perahu yang sudah jadi. Sudah lihat belum?  

Here’s a finished boat. Have you seen it yet?

27

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Belum.  

Not yet.

28

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Sudah jadi dua.  

There are already two.

29

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Replika dari relip itu kan.  

A replica of the relic, right?

30

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Yang Borobudur itu?  

The one from Borobudur?

31

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Enggak. Relipnya yang  

No. The relic that is

32

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dari Batu Bata itu?  

made of brick?

33

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Sudah jadi. Bagus.  

It’s already done. It looks nice.

34

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Berarti kita bikinkan ini untuk pariwisata jalur kanal.  

That means we’re creating this for canal route tourism.

35

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Jadi kita harus hati-hati menggunakan pariwisata. Jangan sampai nanti kita demam pariwisata. Ini malah rusak.  

So we need to be careful with tourism. We shouldn’t fall into tourism fever; otherwise, it will be damaged.

36

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Makanya kita jangan menggunakan sebagai obyek pariwisata. Dibalik ya. Misalkan gini.  

That’s why we shouldn’t use it as a tourism object. We need to flip the concept. For example:

37

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Jangan kita membuat desa wisata. Misalkan desa wisata itu punya adat, kanalnya dulu pakai perahu tradisional. Kalau jadi desa wisata nanti karena mementingkan ekonomi, jadilah kasih BPPBA.  

Let’s not create a tourist village. For instance, a tourist village should have customs, and the canal should be used with traditional boats. If it becomes a tourist village later, prioritizing the economy, then we might as well give it ****.**

38

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Tapi kita balik diksinya menggunakan wisata desa. jadi apa? Kita ke desa itu mau berwisata tentang kehidupan sehari-hari. Nah itu juga gitu. Kita gunakan wisata Candi saja. Jadi itu betul. Jadi tentang nilai-nilai ini, BUMN itu kan.  

Instead, we should turn the terminology to “village tourism.” So what does that mean? We visit the village to experience daily life. That’s also valid. We could just use temple tourism. So that’s correct. This pertains to the values, especially with ****** involved.**

39

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Terus dipagar kencang. Masyarakat kan nggak boleh ngeakses ke situ. Mau masuk, bayar.  

Then it’s tightly fenced off. The public is not allowed to access it. If you want to enter, you have to pay.

40

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Kami kemarin di situ, jadi minggu lalu yang diundang ini, kan pada kesana, pro dan kontra masalah catra. Kalau saya sih lebih dapat konsep yang dari Om Salim dan semua. Lebih menolak lah karena itu.  

We were there yesterday; last week, those who were invited went there, discussing the pros and cons of the catra issue. Personally, I aligned more with the concepts from Om Salim and the others. I was more resistant because of that.

41

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Kalau saya gampang, saya juga ditanya. Kalau Pak Agus sendiri gimana? Saya bilang perdebatan masalah catra. Catra kan payung kan? Oke di simbol-simbol Buddha memang ada.  

For me, it’s straightforward. I was asked, “What about Mr. Agus?” I mentioned the debate regarding the catra issue. Catra is like an umbrella, right? Okay, there are symbols of Buddhism involved.

42

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Nah perdebatan di Borobudur itu sudah lama. Sejak zaman Belanda itu sudah jadi berjabat. Iya, zaman Stulohim.  

The debate surrounding Borobudur has been ongoing for a long time, since the Dutch era. Yes, during the Stulohim era.

43

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Stulohim malah suruh Masang kemudian sama Jepang nggak mau di penjara. Terus kemudian zaman-zaman sebelumnya ada beberapa ahli Belanda waktu itu berdebat. Perdebatan itu tidak hanya ahli pada masa India-Belanda, tetapi juga masa kemerdekaan.  

Stulohim even instructed Masang, and then the Japanese didn’t want him imprisoned. In earlier times, several Dutch experts debated this issue. The debate wasn’t just among experts from the Dutch-Indies era but continued into the independence era.

44

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Dan perdebatan sudah berakhir. Sudah berakhir Pak Agus? Sudah. Kapan berakhir ya? Ketika Pak Soekarno memutuskan tidak ada catra di Borobudur dan pada waktu akhir dari pemugaran tahun 80-an itu sampai disitulah.  

And the debate is over. Is it over, Mr. Agus? Yes. When did it end? When Mr. Soekarno decided that there was no catra on Borobudur, and at the conclusion of the restoration in the 1980s, that was the end.

45

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Nanti sudah selesai itu. Sekarang perdebatan umat itu kan hanya opini. Iya.  

It will be over soon. Now, the debate among the public is just opinion. Yes.

46

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Dan itu kan simbol dari dharma.  

And that is a symbol of dharma.

47

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Dharma kaya.  

Dharma is rich.

48

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Bukan simbol dari…. Bukan setupa seperti ini sebagai tempat relik.  

It’s not a symbol of… not a stupa like this as a place for relics.

49

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Bukan.  

No.

50

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Kalau dharma kaya seharusnya tidak berpayung. Semesta ini lah, begitu kan.  

If dharma kaya is to be, it shouldn’t have an umbrella. This universe is like that, right?

51

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Iya.  

Yes.

52

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Makanya perdebatan itu secara akademik sudah selesai. Kalau sekarang itu perdebatan opini. Kalau opini ya jangan ditanggepin dong.  

That’s why the academic debate is over. Now, it’s just a debate of opinions. If it’s an opinion, don’t respond to it.

53

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Betul. Contoh itu kan bukan ambil dari kita, malah ambil dari Myanmar, Thailand, konsep-konsep catranya itu. Sedangkan di Relief yang kemarin aku dikirimin juga, Relief-nya kan tidak ada catranya.  

That’s correct. That example didn’t come from us; it came from Myanmar and Thailand, regarding the catra concepts. Meanwhile, in the reliefs that I was sent yesterday, there was no catra.

54

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Dan bangunan-bangunan yang sejaman, Kalasan, Sewu, Plausan, tidak ada yang satu pun yang pakai catra.  

And the buildings from the same era—Kalasan, Sewu, Plausan—none of them feature a catra.

55

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Betul.  

That’s right.

56

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Nah itu yang kemarin lah.  

Well, that was yesterday.

57

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Intinya sebenarnya sebagian pimpinan yang di pusat itu mereka maunya punya catra.  

The point is, some leaders at the center actually want to have a catra.

58

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Itu kan opini.  

That’s just an opinion.

59

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Kalau kami kan berdebat.  

We’re debating it.

60

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Kalau kita kan berargumentasi.  

We’re arguing.

61

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Berargumentasi dasarnya ini.  

The basis for our arguments is this.

62

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Kalau opini kan pendapat pribadi boleh-boleh saja.  

If it’s an opinion, it’s a personal viewpoint, and that’s fine.

63

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Nah makanya Candi Muara jambi ini juga jangan sampai di tangan yang tidak paham, Pak.  

So we shouldn’t let the Muara Jambi Temple fall into the hands of those who don’t understand, sir.

64

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Ini agak khawatir.  

This is somewhat worrying.

65

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Makanya punya pemikiran.  

That’s why I have concerns.

66

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Ini revitalisasi paling tidak sudah hampir selesai. Meskipun pekerjaan masih panjang. Ini kalau tidak ditunggu ini, habis nanti.  

This revitalization is at least almost complete. Although there is still a long way to go. If we don’t attend to this, it will be finished later.

67

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Saya ingin mengatakan tidak apa-apalah. Saya pensiun dini, tapi saya paling tidak di belakang. Di belakang menguatkan.  

I want to say it’s okay. I retired early, but at least I’m here to support from behind.

68

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Ada anak-anak muda, ada kelompok-kelompok ini. Kalau tidak nanti kayak gitu.  

There are young people and groups involved. If not, it will be like this.

69

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Ini yang dikhawatirkan.  

This is what worries me.

70

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Makanya kan harus ada yang meng’counter.  

That’s why there needs to be someone to counter it.

71

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Dan memang harus ada tulisan-tulisan itu, Pak Agus.  

And there really must be those writings, Mr. Agus.

72

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Iya, saya sudah siapkan tulisan.  

Yes, I have prepared the writings.

73

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Ada buku-buku secara akademis, secara arkeologis itu seperti apa.  

There are academic books detailing what they are like from an archaeological perspective.

74

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Jadi kita sudah, data kan sudah banyak nih. Jadi pekerjaan saya nanti nulisinnya.  

So we already have a lot of data. My job later is to compile it.

75

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Iya, betul.  

Yes, that’s right.

76

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Kalau tidak habis, Pak. Kita nanti, Pak.  

If it’s not finished, sir. We’ll work on it later.

77

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Betul. Mereka yang tidak paham. Ngasal punya opini.  

Correct. Those who don’t understand are carelessly forming opinions.

78

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Satu itu. Kedua, Pak XXX yang berlebihan tidak paham. Iya.  

That’s one. Second, Mr. XXX is excessively ignorant. Yes.

79

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Orientasinya uang terus. Bukan pelestarian, kan.  

His focus is always on money, not on preservation, right?

80

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Iya.  

Yes.